• Betch@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Sheee’s bAAAAaaaaack 😱

    If you are interested, there is a book by the philosopher Daniel Dennett - who is a halfway decent author, e.g. of Darwin’s Dangerous Idea

    That does sound right up my alley I’ll write it down. However my reading ability lately is not great. If I read 2 books in a year, that was a good year hahah. I already have a pile of books on my desk that has been there for about a year now and once in a while a book gets added on top but none get removed from the bottom 😭

    Ngl, but the Catholic Church does do some good stuff Absolutely! Not only the Catholic Church, many religions do a ton of good stuff. It’s sad that these days it is difficult to see that part of it. I have family members who would not be where they are today if it wasn’t for Religion. I don’t even know what their religion is called but it’s not one of the main ones around here. It’s a very small church. They’ve never talked about it, they’ve never tried to get anyone else in the family involved and I respect that so much. All it did for them is put them on a much better path than the one they were on. They went from violent alcoholics to basically loving saints and there is nothing fake or forced about it, if you know what I mean. I still feel

    I used to be very angry at the Catholic Church for a long time myself, though fortunately I healed

    I can relate to that a lot. I still feel guilty about how I used to be around religion. Particularly with my mom. She used to believe and for some reason I couldn’t accept that. I would often talk shit about religion and her beliefs, try to convince her it was all just bullshit. Now I just ask myself why the fuck would I want to take that away from someone? Especially someone like my mom who basically just used religion as a way to calm her mind about the afterlife. Worst part, the most painful part, is that one of the reasons she probably believed so strongly was because it was a way for her to believe that she might be able to see my brother who died before I was born.

    I also quit something - a teaching position

    Ouch… I’m really sorry you’ve had to leave a teaching position. That is a tragedy, but don’t bother second guessing your decision. Whatever you did was the right thing to do. You can still teach even though you aren’t in a teaching position and I have a feeling you weren’t in it for the fame and the fortune that comes with the official title of “Teacher”.

    And yeah, maybe your town will die off then. Perhaps even… I doubt you will take this the wrong way so I will go ahead and say it: perhaps it should?

    Bahah none taken at all. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to take offense when I basically said the same thing about your country! It just is what it is sometimes. Maybe if we all understood that, we would take better care of what we have but no. Too many people take what we have for granted.

    Try to have empathy for Trump …

    Agreed. There are no monkeys named Trump on my back at this point. In a way I don’t really “care” anymore. I’d rather concentrate on the things that are happening rather than the people who we view as the cause of those things because it’s never really just one person. Trump wouldn’t have been able to do much if there wasn’t a growing mass of people who somehow connected to the things he was saying. To put the blame on one person would be ignoring the true root of the issues. Do I believe he deserve every punishment he gets? Yes, 100%. What he does not deserve is my time and energy. I’d rather spend it on people who might end up voting for someone like him.

    …from the GREATEST PERSON ALIVE ON THE PLANET EARTH RIGHT NOW, Jon Stewart…

    Hahah! Yaaaass! I wanted to watch the whole thing raw before I watched Jon Stewart on it though but I will probably end up just watching that instead.

    Determinism: I also believe that. I cannot prove it though, so I don’t hold to it too hard.

    Ahhhh yes. This is the part that really sent my brain into a death spiral 😂 It still does. It is just such a “fun” thing to think about. There is so much to think about when you know nothing. I see it as any other kind of belief. Since you can’t prove it, it should only enter the equation when nothing else can help you make a decision. When there is no right or wrong, or all options are appear to be either right or wrong, to me that is when beliefs are useful. Then again, that is kind of why we’re at this point in time right now. Ironic. Some beliefs are just more dangerous than others I guess, or maybe it’s just the incompatibility between certain beliefs that is dangerous.

    And yes, since we can’t know whether we have free-will or not, we must treat it as if we did because our brain tells us we do but we still need to remember that our brain lies all the time. Well, maybe not as much lie as it omits a lot of information.

    he meant it, he set things in motion to make it happen, nobody bothered to try to fight back, and, here we are)

    I like that thought. Inertia isn’t only applicable to the physical world.

    I have to apologize, I am having a hard time grasping your thoughts on space and time. If you want you can try to re-word that for me as I wouldn’t mind having a clearer picture and toying with your ideas a bit.

    Yes, we may be pawns on a chessboard, but who is to say that WE are not ALSO the players!? If life is a video game, WE could be the characters, but “WE” could ALSO be coming down into our avatars from above.

    Oh god yeah. That is something that I have thought about a lot. I also like the idea that we are all just one consciousness experiencing itself from within, or just a bunch of thoughts trying to sort themselves out in some sort of giant cosmic brain. I dunno hahah, these ideas can go pretty far and get pretty crazy. It’s just so much fun to think about. I miss Timothy Leary, Terence McKenna and their crazy psychedelic-fueled ideas.

    ----PART 2----

    And moreover, who cares?

    Exactly.

    That said, I halfway agree in that I think people carry around so many strange things, that when you talk with someone you are only partway talking to them, and partway talking to all the stuff that they bring with them.

    Oh it is very rare that you will get to truly talk to someone. I think you’re always interacting with a translation layer that sits between an interface and the actual mind.

    I do believe there is a higher mind and that we all have it but that it can be buried and suffocated. It’s very difficult to stay open-minded these days as we are constantly bombarded with crap coming from all directions. I can’t blame anyone for closing that door after a while. I also think that you should never really be interacting with the same person twice. Healthy people grow and change constantly.

    I have thought that before, but can never seem to hold onto it

    I know exactly what you mean. It is extremely difficult to hold on to. It takes a conscious effort to do so but it is absolutely worthwhile. To me it offloads a ton of weight from my shoulders.

    • OpenStars@startrek.website
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      9 months ago

      This is part 2, space timey wimy goodness:

      It is fundamentally difficult to grasp, yeah. CS Lewis has an illustration that I will borrow blatantly steal outright: imagine an outside entity who “sees” the entire trajectory of your life as a line, with all its twists and curves, and then, perhaps on a whim or to make it more beautiful art, decides to “outline” it, like maybe a highlighter or let us rather say one line “above”/to the left and another line “below”/to the right of it. From your perspective, your life appears “hemmed in”, outlined, bordered by those two lines - as if you had no choices in the matter? Yet, that outside agent was the one who drew the lines, but following YOUR choices! That at least is the simplistic version, but it gets even weirder if, while the outside agent is drawing those outlining lines, your own lifeline changes in response. So if the agent starts drawing from the beginning of your life to the end, the final trajectory could change - according to YOUR choices, but in response to THEIR choices, which were themselves based on YOUR choices to begin with. Notice the caveat inherent in that: the “you” may change, from an alternate-reality you without interference from that outside agent, to now the “you” that has done so.

      Even weirder, what if that “outside agent”, who I mentioned earlier plays you like a chess piece pawn, isn’t “God” or whatever, but YOU! In that case, “you” are the video game or storybook or whatever character, but in this formulation, the external agent is also YOU - moreover it would be the REAL you, whereas the one inside this reality is the lesser version. Ofc, here you must somehow have “forgotten” your true, higher self. And as you brought up, there may not be a 1:1 correlation between each of us down here vs. ourselves up there - all humans could come from just 1 or a few up there, or whatever. Anything is possible there, and we are only limited by our imaginations here. What we know for certain here is that what Religion tells us in this regard is fundamentally flawed and wrong - b/c it is inconsistent e.g. even the people saying so do not practice what they preach - but we do not necessarily know what the True reality is. Now we see only in part. I still like thinking along those lines b/c there are multiple ways to be wrong, and thereby thinking along several different lines could help lead us to Truth - e.g. we might not be “actually” one being (I sincerely doubt it, I see no evidence of it at least), but is there any doubt that we are all “connected” nonetheless?

      you should never really be interacting with the same person twice.

      This one hits me hard - my (autism-spectrumed?) brain constantly forgets this and wants to pick up right where it left off - more a reflection of my own reduced capacity to handle things than anything to do with reality. Speaking of, I had already forgotten that beautiful perspective that you had shared with me about nations changing. Stuff at my job, weird weather, for a few days my exercise schedule has been interrupted and I am just “off”, and just like that it had already slipped through my fingers, again. Maybe, or at least I mean it did at the conscious level. That said, I tend not to try to hold onto anything too strongly, trusting that if it is good that it will find its way back to me in time. That… is nowhere close to true though:-(, and yet I know that I CANNOT hold onto things no matter how I try, so it is demotivating to even try.

      And I think there is an evolutionary reason for this: community. No one person - a sage on a mountaintop lets say - can or even should really try to have it all, all the knowledge, all the wisdom, all the perfection. Rather, if we choose to surround ourselves with those who are worthwhile, and distance ourselves from idiots (it seems sad but what else can you do but that? they are hell-bent on their own destruction, and they will absolutely take you down with them!), then we can keep reminding ourselves of these beautiful Truths.

      Or, so I say anyway, but then I don’t actually DO it - oopsie, I guess I too am one of those who says one thing yet does the polar opposite, an “idiot” even. As too are we all, but one difference, not sure I can take “credit” for any of it but just saying it as a fact (or so it seems to me): some of us, for whatever reason, desire to know the Truth, and Reason, and Mind, while some of us, again for whatever reason, do not. THAT makes all the difference in the world, b/c I will eventually find what I seek, with effort + time, while they literally never will (and even if they stumbled upon it, they would set it back down again without realizing its significance). So I am grateful that I care, and therefore… almost grateful for the pain that I lived through that made me care. Most people would have no idea whatsoever what that means, but I don’t even need to explain it further than that, b/c you already do.

      I hope these thoughts are at least halfway entertaining:-D.

    • OpenStars@startrek.website
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      9 months ago

      This is part 1, then space-time wonkiness in part 2:-).

      Sheee’s bAAAAaaaaack 😱

      She is absolutely the BEst biTCH!:-) (I really hope you take that as I meant it, in that I mean that you are awesome:-P)

      Ngl, I think Darwin’s Dangerous Idea took me a year to read through. Except that’s got to be a lie - it surely took more:-P. And I never did finish the other one… - nor iirc did the person who unloaded gave it to me:-( Anyway I am glad that I read the former one at least, and have at least heard about the latter, b/c when I was young I was taught “young earth creationism” (as pretty much everyone in America is, despite how most people outside of the USA iirc pretty much never are), and that (first one) was perhaps the chief resource that helped me logic+reason my way out of that - not alone, but it helped. So it had personal significance to me to be worth that investment of time. I don’t know if either of those books would have that kind of punch in your case, but I did want to share so that you could make that determination on your own, knowing that they exist:-).

      Your example of Religion is perfect: real or not, it has enormous benefits, as too does the placebo effect. Jesus Himself used it, even as He commanded to redirect it - e.g. towards taking care of widows and orphans, which implies everything up to and short of that as well, e.g. paying workers their wages. That said, it can also become horribly corrupt, as can anything that People touch - e.g. Science+Technology can lead to nuclear war, genocidal tools, even experimentation upon being beings; Education can be twisted to become “re-education” in a totalitarian regime (see e.g. Uighurs); Math can… well I am sure it can somehow be used poorly as well, maybe by making numbers go brrr i.e. chasing after “efficiency” i.e. profits at the expense of the human beings involved:-(.

      But if it can be used poorly, then surely it could be used well too, like you mentioned, to turn someone’s life around by offering them a REASON to exist. We all need that. Fome some, atheism or agnosticism is enough, but not everyone - e.g. not me personally. That said, it can also be super great to break away from a poorly-used, poorly-run one, like an overbearing one that actively hurts people. Especially here - but really almost anywhere except the hardest of the hard sciences, like it happens in politics - there is a huge gulf between things like the real, actual, full Truth (which for religion nobody knows - e.g. the Christian Bible even explicitly says that it is impossible to know, like “now we see dimly, in part, as if a reflection from a dirty mirror…”), and then what we think is true, and then also distinct from both of those how people chasing after power use as their method to control others. e.g. when I am at my job, it is not Religion that is used to control me - all mention of personal beliefs is highly taboo - so there it is rather Authoritarianism that accomplishes that purpose for them. Relion is one tool of control over the masses, but it is not the only one, and it is not inherently either good or evil. (Arguably it is good when it says to e.g. “hold fast to what is true”, but that can be bad when what it thought to be true is incorrect, and the people are willing to e.g. behead someone over a disagreement)

      Moreover, even full “Logic”, in the hands of a child - i.e. virtually everyone, especially those among us that choose to act that way, as in child-ish behaviors observed in adults - becomes mere “justification”, to serve their ends, rather than being an end unto itself. This is why I place a lot of value on “stories” to help us see that - Isaac Asimov, Pinocchio, Star Trek TOS’s Spock’s emotional quest to gain parental & societal validation through (ironically) expunging his emotions by achieving Kolinahr (his motivations for that are explained much deeper in the book than the movie), and the converse of that in TNG Data’s perfectly-logical quest to become more “human” by discarding logic when appropriate, e.g. to appreciate and be able to tell a joke.:-D So… even logic itself, becomes a mere tool to be used for some aim, in the hands of our monkey selves. Whether it “should” be this way or not is irrelevant, as it simply is.

      So anyway, philosophy is so extremely central to these foundational aspects of our lives, and many can find their meaning in Religion, and in Logic, and I like that:-). It deepens us, which is good, but if used improperly, then just like a surgeon’s scalpal or again like any tool at all, it can harm us just as if not all the more readily, by virtue of touching our lives in such a vulnerable spot.

      Speaking of, if I can make a suggestion: PLEASE only think about these matters if and when they are fun for you. I want to enjoy your company, not add to your burdens:-), like if any of this would stress you out.:-D

      And further along those lines, I hope that you take heart in that all of our relationships with our mothers are this way, it seems to me. From when you were the tiniest little baby all the way forward until now - e.g. you would kick and scream and spit up onto her, not even b/c it was “her”, but then later especially, yeah, b/c it was specifically her. I am no child psychologist, but that is the “normal” state of affairs it seems. For all monkeys even. At the same time, I am glad that you grew out of it. Also fwiw, that seems unlikely to be the sole reason that anyone would “believe” something - surely it must have been a big one, but also if she grew up in it that would be another point towards it, the “sunk cost fallacy” you know, and so on. But everyone is different - e.g. for me I don’t even necessarily “want” to believe (or if I do then I am deceiving myself - which is also a distinct possibility!), but I have to chase down wherever my investigations lead me, and if that causes me to ditch it one day then I will. On the other hand, the latter viewpoint of life is rather unusual, so I cannot project that onto everyone, and yeah maybe she actually was holding onto that thought for her own sake, plus whatever other background reasons, in which case I am glad that she had it - false or no. We do need our security blankets - I used to think the more solid they are the better, but the more I see how society is crumbling around us (and the corresponding suicide rates), the more I question my belief in that. To be clear, I still believe that for ME, and I would hope that others would STRIVE for the same, but I must accept that the vast majority of people will not do so.

      I am not really a “teacher” at all I think - it was kind of a career path that people just “expect” for others to follow, but my problem is that I only care about helping people who WANT to be helped, so I think I am more of a “helper” at heart. So now I am a software engineer where I get to do that. I have lost some autonomy, but that could be good as well. I never had any ability to truly help people who REFUSE to be helped, and it would have killed me to keep trying and fail. In that sense, NOBODY who has that kind of “teacher” mindset should have a job where they have to actually TEACH in today’s current capitalist societal framework. It self-selects otherwise.

      What he [Trump] does not deserve is my time and energy.

      YAAAASSSS QUEEN! Except… hrm, it will keep coming up, every few years and also rearing its ugly head. It is something that we cannot ignore, except for the sake of our mental health, we have to, even though we couldn’t if we tried. Doesn’t that just about sum it up!?!?

      I also “feel like” I know what you mean there about predestination or whatever we are calling it - “fate”. It is one of the most dangerous mindsets b/c it robs people of their agency - but we really do seem to also have that!?!? (Maybe?) So it’s like there’s a Truth there somewhere, but darned if I know what it is, and whether True or not, how does it even help me either way? This is why I like CS Lewis: he also talked like that, having lived it first. Like, if we had not believed that first, and then late in life learned it, that might have been more helpful for us. Instead, we (all three of us) stumbled upon it earlier, and now do not know how it fits in with the rest of the framework. I liken it to a mage/sorcerer type who learned some kind of arcane branch of magic, so while their buddies are going around doing all the cool, useful stuff like fireball, we basically got nothing to show for it, except that we happen to know (what might be, MAYBE) a deeper Truth. It could end up being the most powerful magic of all, but what good does that do for us, practically speaking, on a daily basis?!

      If you were asking more about the Russia connection, Fox News is what has damaged America, and Russia funded/started Fox News. There is a documentary about it on Netflix, which I haven’t watched, just piecing that together from other sources. But I am guessing that you rather meant the other thing:-).

      But I will have to put the time/space thing in a separate part again due to space limitations.:-D