I am not a native English speaker and I have sometimes referred to people as male and female (as that is what I have been taught) but I have received some backlash in some cases, especially for the word “female”, is there some negative thought in the word which I am unaware of?

I don’t know if this is the best place to ask, if it’s not appropriate I have no problem to delete it ^^

  • dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de
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    6 months ago

    I feel like a lot of answers here are dancing around why people find it offensive without really addressing it.

    As an adjective “female” is completely fine to distinguish between genders when applied to humans. As in “a female athlete” or when a form asks you to select “male” or “female” (ideally with additional options “diverse” and “prefer not to answer”).

    Where it’s problematic is when it’s used as a noun. In English “a male” and “a female” is almost exclusively reserved for animals. For humans we have “a man” and “a woman”. Calling a person “a female” is often considered offensive because it carries the implication of women being either animals, property or at least so extremely different from the speaker that they don’t consider them equal. This impression is reinforced by the fact that the trend of calling women “females” is popular with self-proclaimed “nice guys” who blame women for not wanting to date them when in reality it’s their own behavior (for example calling women “females”) that drives potential partners away.

    So in itself, the word “female” is just as valid as “male” and in some contexts definitely the right word to use but the way it has been used gives it a certain negative connotation.

    • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I think you got this mostly dead on but I don’t know about it being because anyone thinks women are animals. I do believe the part you wrote about it being about difference/distance is correct though. In fact I think cops refer to suspects as male or female for the same reason. Man and woman sound nothing alike and are easier to say, so there must be some reason not to use those words. I think they say male or female to create distance between them, and not a person, but a gendered wrongdoer. That way they can apply any and all force without feeling as bad about it

  • BreakDecks@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    The way I explained it to a chronically single friend who used this word problematically all the time, and made him stop: Female is a word that describes gender and/or sex. My wife is female, and so is my dog. My wife is literally a woman, and my dog is literally a removed, so if I speak of my wife with the same sterile language that I speak of my dog, then my wife would easily conclude that I have no respect for her. I then asked him how the dating world was treating him, he said “bad”, and I said “of course, because you treat women like dogs”.

    Never heard him say it again.

  • Niquarl@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    I personally would always prefer saying boy girl man woman over male and female. Whener I first saw it used it was always in a negative context like “young black male” in regard to some crime to give the opposite example. Just like in French I think it’s weird to refer to humans with male and female, although accurate of course, as I would only expect it in for animals.

  • andrewta@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    As far as I’m concerned. No not a problem.

    If someone says they identify as something else then make the correction.

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Definitely.

      [NOT OKAY] “Hey guys, check out those females!”

      [Okay.] “There were seventy-five males and sixty females in the study.”

      [NOT OKAY] “Gonna go out with my favourite females tonight” (unless you’re a girl in a girls night out and doing a comedic take on the bro culture)

      [Okay] “The shoplifter was ~170cm tall, female, wore large sunglasses and ran surprisingly fast for someone in such high heels smelling so strongly of chardonnay”

        • tias@discuss.tchncs.de
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          6 months ago

          It makes them sound like specimens, dehumanizes and objectifies them. Kinda analogous to saying “I’m taking my offspring to the movies” instead of “I’m going with my son to the movies.”

          • spikespaz@programming.dev
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            6 months ago

            See I don’t think that is wrong either. Technically accurate words are valid substitutes for orthodox ones, especially in a comedic sense.

  • TheBananaKing@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Female as an adjective is perfectly fine.

    A female patient, a female politician, a female customer, etc. That’s the best way to refer to those.

    What’s bad is using ‘female’ as a noun: "A female. "

    In general, you just don’t use adjectives-as-nouns to refer to people. You don’t call someone “a gay”, “a black”, or “a Chinese”. That is offensive, and “a female” has the same kind of feel.

    (there are exceptions to the above: you can call someone ‘an American’ or 'A German", but not “A French”. I don’t understand why - if you can’t feel your way, best just avoid it)

    Now, you could get around it by calling someone “a female person” - except that we already have a word for “female person”, and that’s “woman”. And to go out of your way to avoid saying “woman” makes you sound like some kind of incel weirdo, and you don’t want that.

    • pr06lefs@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Interesting point with adjectives vs nouns.

      ‘a Frenchman’ would be more correct than ‘a French’. Because French is only an adjective, while American and German are both nouns and adjectives. But Frenchman is not gender neutral like German or American.

      Could go with Francophone, but that’s any french speaking person so that includes canadians, africans, etc.

      And, it would seem to make sense to go with Frank, but the Franks were originally germans, then expanded their territory to include France, and the name stuck there but not in their original territory, so is it really correct to refer to the French as Franks? Since no one does it, I would guess not.

      • amelia@feddit.de
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        6 months ago

        Not a native speaker here. Would a French woman also be 'a Frenchman’s and if not, how would you refer to a French woman correctly?

        • locuester@lemmy.zip
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          6 months ago

          3 years ago, “man” in that context was considered gender neutral. More recently tho a lot of stink is being made about little language things like this. Theres no replacement word to use.

          • Vanth@reddthat.com
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            6 months ago

            It’s been a lot longer than 3 years. My city changed policeman and fireman to police officer and firefighter almost two decades ago.

            I am very skeptical of this 3 year timeframe lining up with the end of Trump’s presidency and the right leaning into this anti-woke position.

            • locuester@lemmy.zip
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              6 months ago

              Sensitivities during Covid ran high. A lot of things changed then. For instance in the software world removing the name “master” from git usage, and on the TV Show Survivor, the host not saying his famous line “come on in guys”. At the same time pronouns became a huge thing, and these seemingly gender specific or sensitive word terms were targeted.

              You are correct, there was a round of this in the 90s or so, where job titles like “waitress”, “stewardess”, “policeman” were all adjusted. I see that as a very different round of language change.

              • Vanth@reddthat.com
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                6 months ago

                GitHub changed their terminology in ~2020, but it’s been a controversial term for years before that. I remember master/slave hard drive terminology being set aside in early 2010s. And I was just grunt level, hourly IT at the time.

                • locuester@lemmy.zip
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                  6 months ago

                  Yeah, 2020 is the time period I’m referring to. I had never heard of it being a thing until George Floyd and BLM movement in 2020, then GitHub changed in response to that.

                  I’ve been in IT for 35 years. And I never heard a single negative thing about branch names and master/slave terminology until 2020.

                  Perhaps you think that was set aside because IDE hard drives are dead.