Teachers describe a deterioration in behaviour and attitudes that has proved to be fertile terrain for misogynistic influencers

“As soon as I mention feminism, you can feel the shift in the room; they’re shuffling in their seats.” Mike Nicholson holds workshops with teenage boys about the challenges of impending manhood. Standing up for the sisterhood, it seems, is the last thing on their minds.

When Nicholson says he is a feminist himself, “I can see them look at me, like, ‘I used to like you.’”

Once Nicholson, whose programme is called Progressive Masculinity, unpacks the fact that feminism means equal rights and opportunities for women, many of the boys with whom he works are won over.

“A lot of it is bred from misunderstanding and how the word is smeared,” he says.

But he is battling against what he calls a “dominance-based model” of masculinity. “These old-fashioned, regressive ideas are having a renaissance, through your masculinity influencers – your grifters, like Andrew Tate.”

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    8 months ago

    I actually agree… We simply ignore the needs of men who are suffering. When was the last time you read a story about a male domestic abuse victim who WASN’T laughed at.

    • FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Or like how Google has a doodle for international women’s day but never international men’s day. Not to be dismissive or insensitive to women’s issues, but I’ve seen boys and young men talk about how little things like that give them the impression that their thoughts and feelings are not valid.

      There are ofc men’s issues still like how the overwhelming majority workplaces deaths are men or how more men die from suicide than women. Men are more likely to be homeless than women etc

      The sexes are supposed to compliment one another. Not compete against one another. We can acknowledge that there are issues for both sides while still being sensitive and respectful.

      • Dark Arc@social.packetloss.gg
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I think there’s a lesson in there about teaching people that weren’t around for the formation of a movement about why targeted movements exist.

        It’s not just with kids but with people that are tuned out… I think too many people fall through the cracks into white power, toxic masculinity, incel groups, etc because on the surface the questions are of course…

        “well why don’t I have a support group for X? what makes that group of people special? why do they get their own day?”

        Like yeah, if nobody’s ever explained what women have historically faced to you, feminism and girl power are especially strange concepts to confront.

        Maybe having a more positive masculinity movement actually wouldn’t be a bad idea just to help people that are feeling a little lost and prevent them from finding “answers” in the wrong places(?)

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          I think the lesson here is that even if white males are “in power” on a societal level, on an individual level it still benefits everyone to have a safe space, even straight white men. We need a men’s support group. I would argue we even need a “white support group”. There are unique challenges and difficulties that come with being white. Not to the same degree as being black, for example, but they’re a totally different set of issues.

    • Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      Toxic masculinity is the reason for that as well. Being the victim is seen as being less masculine, which is seen as worthy of ridicule.

      Toxic masculinity hurts everyone.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        When men do bad things: “this is toxic masculinity”

        When women do bad things: “this is also toxic masculinity”

        • Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          When men don’t get the support they need. Or are ridiculed for feeling emotions other than anger. And don’t feel they can cry without being judged.

          Women can absolutely be abusers. That’s called shitty people and has nothing to do with masculinity, toxic or otherwise.

          • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            Most men cry in front of a woman exactly once.

            That’s not toxic masculinity. It’s toxic femininity and NO ONE is addressing it in a systemic way.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              8 months ago

              In feminist theory “masculinity” and “femininity” don’t mean “what men do” and “what women do” but value systems floating through society affecting people.

              So in that sense yes woman can exhibit toxic masculinity, if they reinforce those shitty norms. Likewise men can exhibit toxic femininity… say, comparatively harmless example, by discouraging a tomboy from skating.

              It’s just one of those gazillions of instances where feminist terminology sucks absolutely donkeyballs because you need to read theory to understand it, which practically noone who calls themselves a feminist actually does, it’s all vibes and signals very little analysis they abuse those terms just like the rest of the population. The rest of the population at least has an excuse, they’re using the dictionary definition.

              In this particular instance, “toxic (male) gender norm” would be much better.