You can’t just browbeat people into voting for Biden. Biden has to get people to vote for Biden. To make that happen, he has to do better. For better or worse, it looks like he’ll take the nomination when the convention happens. Its on him now, and its basically out of all of our hands, whether journalist or commentator.
Its on Biden to win this election. He has to make the case for why he is better than Trump. He’s got to go convince the vast majority of non-voters that he’s worth showing up for. Trumps followers will be showing up in force and are as excited as ever to vote.
You can’t just argue someone into being excited to vote for a candidate. Nor can you guilt them or shame them into it either. It doesn’t matter if you personally see it as secondarily important. What matters is how they perceive it. If they see it as a ‘no difference’ or as if ‘my vote doesn’t matter’, or ‘Biden is just as bad’, then you’ve lost.
Biden’s got a tough road to 270. Firstly, he doesn’t have a cult. Second, irl, things were actually better for most people economically under Trump. Its a circumstance of history, but it is what it is. It doesn’t matter why things have gotten worse, it just matters that they have and under whose watch. Then you compound that with Bidens position on Gaza effectively being a complete departure from his base. He’s softened that corner in the most microscopic of ways, but nothing meaningful has changed there. He’s unable to whip Congress into passing his bills. He can’t get them to fully fund Ukraine. The domestic agenda he did go for does almost nothing directly for individuals; if anything the infrastructure bill could hurt him because these projects will just be starting to interrupt traffic around election time, and they’ve all got big signs that say something along the lines of ‘Bipartisan infrastructure bill’, effectively ‘your tax dollars at work’. But legitimately, people might be seeing those signs in November thinking ‘this project made me late to work’. Its not clear that the bill will be making any kind of a difference that peoples lives. And our lives have become objectively worse under Biden. We are making less relative to the cost of things, and that hurts. It happened under Biden, and that’s what people perceive.
I’m not writing Biden out yet, but he’s got a real tough slog ahead of him, that he doesn’t appear to be even starting to work on.
Second, irl, things were actually better for most people economically under Trump.
I’ll dispute that. 2021-2024 has so far been better economically for most people than 2016-2020. The top ten percent has seen a dramatic increase in income during the Trump administration, but the bottom half has been almost entirely stagnant while the cost of living has increased. Biden hasn’t done much to change that trend, and I’ll agree with you that economic performance is more circumstance than policy-driven.
I’ll dispute that. 2021-2024 has so far been better economically for most people than 2016-2020.
Ok…
The top ten percent has seen a dramatic increase in income during the Trump administration, but the bottom half has been almost entirely stagnant while the cost of living has increased.
but the bottom half has been almost entirely stagnant while the cost of living has increased.
People are downvoting you because they don’t want to hear what you’re saying even though it’s true. Biden is objectively better than Trump but that might not be enough. We can debate the how’s and the why’s of that statement but I don’t think there’s any reason to dispute it.
It’s not true. Voting isn’t a moral calculation, it’s a strategic one. I absolutely agree that the onus is on Biden to bring people into the tent, but anyone that isn’t going to vote for him because “he hasn’t done enough” or “both sides are the same” (which are objectively untrue) is making a poor strategic decision that is against their own interests and supporting Conservatives. People should understand that. They should understand why their protest vote in a general election isn’t a protest vote and how it damages their own cause.
You want to enlighten me then? Please explain how we benefit from Trump winning the general election. That’s the direct result of Joe Biden receiving less votes. How specifically do we benefit? There’s only 2 possible results in November, why do you favor the result you favor?
Your approach to rhetoric is the “gee thanks I’m cured” meme. You aren’t willing to meet people where they are at, you just want to tell them what they ‘should’ do or else they get the hose again.
You have to meet people where they are at. Have you ever interacted with some one in a mental health crisis? You can’t just get them out of the street and get them to stop putting gloves on their feet by telling them what they “should” be doing. You have to meet them where they are at and get them to understand that you understand why they are where they are. To do that you have to come down from your position trying to brow beat them into doing what you want them and actually try to understand them.
So you saw a YouTube video on strategic voting and now you think you know better. Well guess what. People are going to go into November with the following information: They had a better quality of life under Trump than they do Biden. That’s where they are starting. You keep arguing about what people should think instead of trying to understand what they do think and why they think that way. People who are voting for Trump are making a strategic decision, but you’re too obtuse and self concerned to notice that the Democrats and Biden really haven’t done shit for anyone.
I want the Democrats to win, but how you are going about making the argument for Biden is actually making things worse. You need to spend some time thinking about why people do the things they do and think the things they think so you can understand them. Understanding some one doesn’t mean you have to agree with them, but you can’t convince some one of something if you don’t understand them.
And you aren’t special in this regard. Mainstream Democrats, Corporate media, and probably half of Lemmy are relying on the same, tired, show to be a failure strategy you are using. It doesn’t work. You can’t beat people into agreeing with you.
Just like Biden needs to, you have to address peoples actual concerns. And take Michigan as a case study in this. Biden was utterly floundering in the polls. He was dropping sub 1:10 of winning the big game prior to Michigan. Undecided won the narrative in this, and has forced Biden to shift policy on Israel. Because of this he’s having to address his biggest weakness going into November, and is becoming a stronger candidate because of it.
Allowing Biden to proceed with out criticism, this idiotic 8th grade level of understanding around strategic voting, Blue no matter who: These are going to lose you the election in November. My point was that you just don’t get it, so I’ve put some words down to try and help you out. But right now, your approach to rhetoric and your supposed strategic approach to voting is hurting Bidens ability to get into office more than it’s helping.
You want Biden in office after November? Demand more from him. You want the Democrats to win? Get them to do things that materially help people’s lives. Browbeating people into submission when you have demonstrated that you have no idea why they think what they think not going to get you any votes .
Where have I said we shouldn’t demand more from Biden and the Democrats? I would argue the opposite. Biden didn’t get my vote in the primary. My claim is that voting against the Democrats in the general election does not get you more from the Democrats, it enables the party trying to make our lives significantly worse.
You can criticize the party while still voting for them when the alternative is a party bent on ending democracy. You can also primary all the candidates that don’t represent your values. I would encourage it. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to acknowledge Democrats both need to improve the party AND win every election against every GOP candidate possible.
You can’t just browbeat people into voting for Biden. Biden has to get people to vote for Biden. To make that happen, he has to do better. For better or worse, it looks like he’ll take the nomination when the convention happens. Its on him now, and its basically out of all of our hands, whether journalist or commentator.
Its on Biden to win this election. He has to make the case for why he is better than Trump. He’s got to go convince the vast majority of non-voters that he’s worth showing up for. Trumps followers will be showing up in force and are as excited as ever to vote.
You can’t just argue someone into being excited to vote for a candidate. Nor can you guilt them or shame them into it either. It doesn’t matter if you personally see it as secondarily important. What matters is how they perceive it. If they see it as a ‘no difference’ or as if ‘my vote doesn’t matter’, or ‘Biden is just as bad’, then you’ve lost.
Biden’s got a tough road to 270. Firstly, he doesn’t have a cult. Second, irl, things were actually better for most people economically under Trump. Its a circumstance of history, but it is what it is. It doesn’t matter why things have gotten worse, it just matters that they have and under whose watch. Then you compound that with Bidens position on Gaza effectively being a complete departure from his base. He’s softened that corner in the most microscopic of ways, but nothing meaningful has changed there. He’s unable to whip Congress into passing his bills. He can’t get them to fully fund Ukraine. The domestic agenda he did go for does almost nothing directly for individuals; if anything the infrastructure bill could hurt him because these projects will just be starting to interrupt traffic around election time, and they’ve all got big signs that say something along the lines of ‘Bipartisan infrastructure bill’, effectively ‘your tax dollars at work’. But legitimately, people might be seeing those signs in November thinking ‘this project made me late to work’. Its not clear that the bill will be making any kind of a difference that peoples lives. And our lives have become objectively worse under Biden. We are making less relative to the cost of things, and that hurts. It happened under Biden, and that’s what people perceive.
I’m not writing Biden out yet, but he’s got a real tough slog ahead of him, that he doesn’t appear to be even starting to work on.
I’ll dispute that. 2021-2024 has so far been better economically for most people than 2016-2020. The top ten percent has seen a dramatic increase in income during the Trump administration, but the bottom half has been almost entirely stagnant while the cost of living has increased. Biden hasn’t done much to change that trend, and I’ll agree with you that economic performance is more circumstance than policy-driven.
Ok…
People are downvoting you because they don’t want to hear what you’re saying even though it’s true. Biden is objectively better than Trump but that might not be enough. We can debate the how’s and the why’s of that statement but I don’t think there’s any reason to dispute it.
It’s not true. Voting isn’t a moral calculation, it’s a strategic one. I absolutely agree that the onus is on Biden to bring people into the tent, but anyone that isn’t going to vote for him because “he hasn’t done enough” or “both sides are the same” (which are objectively untrue) is making a poor strategic decision that is against their own interests and supporting Conservatives. People should understand that. They should understand why their protest vote in a general election isn’t a protest vote and how it damages their own cause.
Man you just really don’t get it do you.
You want to enlighten me then? Please explain how we benefit from Trump winning the general election. That’s the direct result of Joe Biden receiving less votes. How specifically do we benefit? There’s only 2 possible results in November, why do you favor the result you favor?
Your approach to rhetoric is the “gee thanks I’m cured” meme. You aren’t willing to meet people where they are at, you just want to tell them what they ‘should’ do or else they get the hose again.
You have to meet people where they are at. Have you ever interacted with some one in a mental health crisis? You can’t just get them out of the street and get them to stop putting gloves on their feet by telling them what they “should” be doing. You have to meet them where they are at and get them to understand that you understand why they are where they are. To do that you have to come down from your position trying to brow beat them into doing what you want them and actually try to understand them.
So you saw a YouTube video on strategic voting and now you think you know better. Well guess what. People are going to go into November with the following information: They had a better quality of life under Trump than they do Biden. That’s where they are starting. You keep arguing about what people should think instead of trying to understand what they do think and why they think that way. People who are voting for Trump are making a strategic decision, but you’re too obtuse and self concerned to notice that the Democrats and Biden really haven’t done shit for anyone.
I want the Democrats to win, but how you are going about making the argument for Biden is actually making things worse. You need to spend some time thinking about why people do the things they do and think the things they think so you can understand them. Understanding some one doesn’t mean you have to agree with them, but you can’t convince some one of something if you don’t understand them.
And you aren’t special in this regard. Mainstream Democrats, Corporate media, and probably half of Lemmy are relying on the same, tired, show to be a failure strategy you are using. It doesn’t work. You can’t beat people into agreeing with you.
Just like Biden needs to, you have to address peoples actual concerns. And take Michigan as a case study in this. Biden was utterly floundering in the polls. He was dropping sub 1:10 of winning the big game prior to Michigan. Undecided won the narrative in this, and has forced Biden to shift policy on Israel. Because of this he’s having to address his biggest weakness going into November, and is becoming a stronger candidate because of it.
Allowing Biden to proceed with out criticism, this idiotic 8th grade level of understanding around strategic voting, Blue no matter who: These are going to lose you the election in November. My point was that you just don’t get it, so I’ve put some words down to try and help you out. But right now, your approach to rhetoric and your supposed strategic approach to voting is hurting Bidens ability to get into office more than it’s helping.
You want Biden in office after November? Demand more from him. You want the Democrats to win? Get them to do things that materially help people’s lives. Browbeating people into submission when you have demonstrated that you have no idea why they think what they think not going to get you any votes .
Where have I said we shouldn’t demand more from Biden and the Democrats? I would argue the opposite. Biden didn’t get my vote in the primary. My claim is that voting against the Democrats in the general election does not get you more from the Democrats, it enables the party trying to make our lives significantly worse.
You can criticize the party while still voting for them when the alternative is a party bent on ending democracy. You can also primary all the candidates that don’t represent your values. I would encourage it. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to acknowledge Democrats both need to improve the party AND win every election against every GOP candidate possible.
I agree with everything except:
His cult is downvoting you.