For some reason this is unpopular, but I don’t think a police officer should be allowed to remove their firearm from its holster until actual assault has occurred, unless non-police citizens are in danger.
A cop merely being scared should never be a reason somebody dies.
If you can’t handle the pressure, don’t be a fucking cop.
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense… Do you think the criminal justice system will hand-wave it away as easily as this?
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense…
The thing is, liberals want to see this as some kind of exercise in fairness. “Oh if can shoot me then I can shoot them!”
No. This is a gang-violence thing. The MS-13 gang member can shoot you because he’s got a gun and years of psychological scarring and a willingness to kill to survive. You can’t shoot the gang member, because all his buddies will show up at your house, hold you down and skin your dog alive while you’re forced to watch, then bust out all your teeth and hang you out to dry as an example.
Cops work the same way.
Sadly true
This. I forget the court ruling, but there was one, that found you are legally allowed to defend yourself against a police officer who is not acting lawfully, up to and including killing the cop… But good luck surviving that long.
… and proving it. In the end he could likely have been in plain cloths, no badge, in a bar after work and could still somehow claim to have announced himself and tried to prevent some bad perceived crime and it would be fine. Or if he got killed they would likely pull out is glorious career and what good cop he was to argue that he MUST have acted rightfully.
Well you’re not a cop and have a gun, so this side is the Internet already thinks you’re a fascist gun nut and belong locked away.
this says more about your subs than anything because i see a lot of socialists on here who cannot wait to tell me about their soviet pistol
Everything openly pro-gun seems to get downvoted to oblivion here, never truly “everyone” but the balance is certainly favors civilian disarmament.
Yeah I don’t like idiots with guns sorry
Does that include police and military, do you want to abolish those as well, or do they get a special exemption from your “idiots with guns” umbrella because they use them to do others bidding?
No, I don’t know who is an idiot and who isn’t, so less people having guns means less idiots have guns. police and military have vetting and training, regular citizens do not.
Vetted people with impunity and different interests from your own. But vetted, yes.
After a cops own well-being comes the “blue wall of silence”, then their actual orders, and finally you, you come last in their priorities.
The police are the last ones that should have guns
So for context my local PD dealt with a fine gentleman who attacked a security guard in his car dual wielding a hatchet and metal pipe. They spent several hours trying to talk him down before charging him with a shield and arresting him without much further ado. If you guessed he was white you guessed correctly.
Cops killing children dealing with mental help episodes and get rewarded with more funding is something that makes me sick. Body Cam footage shouldn’t depend on if cops feel like releasing it should be sent to an independent party automatically. RIP Ryan.
I saw the body cam, that kid was charging at the cop, he wasn’t just sitting in his front lawn taking care of some flowers. The only real question I have is what was that cop doing there in the first place?
The San Bernardino county sheriff’s department was responding to a 911 call on Saturday from a family reporting that a boy, identified as Ryan Gainer, was attacking his family at their home in Apple Valley, east of Los Angeles.
you don’t call the cops on your own family lightly unless you really are an asshole… People don’t call the cops on their family as a joke.
If I’m at a point where my life is being threatened and I can’t de-escalate, you best believe I’m calling 911. Cops are called all the time and help in situations like this; this cop was just incompetent
Also, why charge a cop with a weapon, though? Teenager at least had the agency to not rush a cop.
Why there? Googled it, this is from a different article:
"The officer-involved shooting was reported before 5 p.m. Saturday, after the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department received a 911 call about a domestic disturbance in Apple Valley, authorities said.
The caller reported that 15-year-old Ryan Gainer was attacking his sister and smashing up glass and doors at the family home."
He was having a mental health crisis. But instead of being helped, he was executed by a full grown man afraid of a boy with a stick
A stick with a heavy pointy piece of metal attached to it. Anything can be a weapon and some are more effective than others.
Anything can be a weapon
Well, that explains the trend of cops shooting people with random objects in their hands. And acorns.
Acorns are fucking dangerous, next thing you know you’re just walking down the street and a gang squirrels comes out and gives the run down for all your seeds and shit.
Let’s list all items that do not look like a gun during a police encounter. I’ll start:
Small puppy Couch Basketball Bucket full of fruit Ice
I can’t think of anymore at the moment. There’s bound to be one or two other items.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZgNAa2sXSc
The bodycam footage has been released and the shooting was clearly justified.
The kid was autistic. It was not justified.
I’m autistic, does that automatically make me an incompetent who can act with impunity because I can be impulsive? This logic only hurts the people you’re pretending to help. Law doesn’t care about intent except for sentencing.
Inside his house, you’d be right and the cop ran away. After he’s outside, he sees it’s a cop, and charges him in anger with a big pointy metal thing. Do you expect the cop to divine someone’s psychological diagnosis? What if it’s a brain tumor that makes him actively murderous? Is everyone in the walking dead committing murder by killing the poor zombies who cannot help themselves?
How nice, you’re highly functioning. Or a lair.
And if you ARE autistic, which I doubt by your post, you would understand that being impulsive isn’t a choice especially for people on the deeper end of the spectrum. Add being a teenager on top of this and the cop is clearly in the wrong for escalating an already tense situations.
Because that’s what cops always do, always escalate, always move towards violence.
You’re going down a slippery slope there my guy. I’m just saying mental health should always be a consideration. Dude was walking towards the cop at a speed where the cop could have just kicked him down. Or even if he had to use the gun, just immobilize the kid by shooting his legs, not murder them.
“should always be a consideration” is a platudinous way of avoiding the rest of what you said.
Nobody, literally nobody, teaches tactics you describe. That’s 100% Hollywood where only the writer gets to kill the hero. It’s not like moving your mouse and clicking or pressing E to melee. With adrenaline and under time pressure, you do not have the kind of fine motor coordination necessary - there have been cases of master-class competitive shooters taking an opportunity to take a shot like that because they’re basically John Wick and the technique is muscle memory, but law enforcement is militarized enough as it is, we don’t need police qualification to be a USPSA “A” classification.
Slippery slope again.
I work with the autistic population. There are ways we can train police officers to be better, not even against autistic folks but the entire population as a whole. The issue here are the cops and how they’re trained. Not the mentally ill person.
Yes, if a mentally ill person is murders, we should charge them for murder. But they have the option to plead mental illness and be sent somewhere else. You can’t have those options if you’re shot dead.
It was and will be ruled so when the investigation is complete. No one wants to see a 15 year old die, but it was clearly justified.
Says the person who would have shot grandma for holding on to garden shears as she walks towards you slowly.
That’s a different scenario. If someone is slowly advancing, non lethal tools can be used. When someone is charging full speed, they can’t.
I’m on the spectrum aswell but I’m under no illusion that it’s going to protect me from violence if I go around physically attacking other people.
‘clearly justified’ for shooting and killing a child point blank for threatening violence with a garden hoe? That officer reacted as if he was being hunted by a monster. You people need to learn some fucking empathy and common sense.
Yeah. It sucks, but what did the family expect? They couldn’t control him and as soon as the police arrived he charged them with a weapon. Shit situation, but an entirely justified shooting.
As if a grown ass officer couldn’t take down a teen wielding some gardening equipment without a lethal weapon.
In some cases they can, but here the officer was charged and the attacker was able to get very close, another second and the officer could have been hit and then who knows what would happen. The footage shows a very clear threat.
Another child murdered.
I will not shed a single tear for when cops get shot and killed.
I hope you have a gun or know how to fight.
Otherwise you need cops to defend you.
Yeah, if your house gets invaded, you better hope you are in a low population area, and the cops happen to be close to your house, or you will wait at least 20 minutes for them to show. You will have been robbed, or worse, before any police can get to the scene under most conditions.
I didn’t even have to open the article to see the boy’s skin color. And I’m not remotely shocked.
Officer was backing away from the kid, and turned to run away from him. The officer was actively retreating from the attack at the time the shots were fired.
Two officers were present. It is not clear from the video who fired the shots. It is very clear, however, that the kid was actively attacking the officer.
Yea sadly the kid was an aggressor here
But the cops should be using tazers or something non-lethal to deal with this kinda altercation
Whatever happened to tasers? I guess it’s not that convenient for the police to have someone capable of suing back, makes one wonder how many cases aren’t able to get the attention this kid is.
Tasers are also quite risky.
What they should have is some proper martial arts training so they can deal with most problems in closer encounters. Fucking shit, they have better equipment and bigger numbers. There should be zero reason to pull a gun unless the other party also has one.
Then maybe escalate to tasers if the other party has a knife and seems to actually starting to attack. If they are just standing there (in a defensive stance or whatever), they should still not be tasered.
It’s far less dangerous than a gun and ideal for melee opponents because cops can still maintain a certain amount of range. You didn’t read the article, did you? The kid was approaching fast charging with the sharp end of a gardening tool over his head while being told to back off, I think there is no question that he was suffering a manic episode. There were a number of ways to deal with the situation, but before reaching for the gun they could have reached for the taser. Tasers are quite risky, yes, but less so than shooting several bullets in a residential zone at someone.
The comment I answered to was quite generic. If tasers get sold as safer guns, they will also be over-used.
That’s why I explicitly told about escalations and the taser was still part of that escalation chain. And yes, in this particular case, a taser could have been a good approach. Although cops with shield and tonfas might have done the job as well. But to be fair: I don’t expect cops to pull out a shield everytime they leave their car and I don’t think they anticipated such a quick escalation here. If a tonfa alone (by two cops, however) would have done the trick … hard to say. Against a knife: yes. Against that large-ass gardening tool … maybe not.
So yes: in this case, a taser would have been good. In general: I would still prefer first going with far far less risky approaches.
So basically, in the case the thread is about, a taser or insert less risky option here would have been good, got it.
In general anything less than killing or maiming someone should be the utmost priority.
But as I said: also a taser can kill and also tackling someone and pinning them to the ground can. So I would put less focus on the methods and more on the intention. Cops should neither have to act out of fear (that’s what training is for) nor out of pleasure. And some cops just seem to get off on being in control. If cops generally would want the best not just for themselves and other civilians but also for the perpetrators, a lot of the problems would solve themself.
I’ve seen enough body cam incidents to know the papers can say one thing and events revealed later by the footage depict another. General police guidance of use of lethal force is when there is an imminent danger to safety so it boils down to whether the kid charged a cop or a member of his family or not.
Have you seen the acorn cop video?
Release the footage then. It’s insane that this boy was shot and killed.
